Sunday, May 3, 2009
"I like a long haired thick red-bone..."
I went to a get together over the weekend and got pulled into a conversation that was a remix of other convos I’ve had before.
You know the conversations: Light skin vs. dark skin…black girls vs. Spanish girls…not much representation of chocolate/dark skin girls in music videos and yada yada yada. But this time it was in regards to songs played on radio; songs you and I most likely enjoy very much and sing along to in the club or download to our Ipods. As it got later and later and as everyone but me was getting higher and higher…LOL…I got annoyed because although I felt like the points were valid; for the first time I didn’t have a response. No suggestions, no resolution, no great come back and I was stuck.
I felt like a hypocrite since I do sing/rap a long to a few songs that make references to the red bones and caramels, Indian, mixed, Spanish, etc… I am also very guilty of casting girls in videos who fit the same criteria. It’s hard looking beautiful brown girls in the face knowing that the director gave me specific instructions NOT to cast any of “them.” I even recall going to an R&B/Hip-Hop conference where the complexion subject was brought up and the video director on the panel who was darker than Akon stated how dark skin models "are not dimes” and the artists DO NOT want them in their videos.
So I’m part of the problem, huh? I’ve discriminated because of a pay check and so that I could add a video to my casting reel. Then I’d support these “artists” by playing their music and singing a long like everything was fine. WACK!
How do we change this?
I even “tweeted” about it on Twitter.com and got a couple of responses but it mostly fell on deaf ears. Folks had been too busy chatting about the NBA play-offs and the Hatton/Pacquiao fight…let’s not forget the Swine Flu. So I decided to blog a little something something hoping that you guys would chime in. Perhaps this is a good discussion to have? You be the judge.
It all started somewhere on the top floor of high-rise apartment building on a rainy sports filled Saturday night. Drinks…weed…music…drinks…spades…drinks…music and conversation…and as the weed was being passed…here comes topic #1:
PRO-ATHLETE: "No offense to some of ya’ll in this room but Chocolate girls never get shout outs in songs. It’s always "redbone, caramel, butta pecan, etc...”
CO-SIGN FROM CLUB PROMOTER: "Please! You girls are too brainwashed to even notice that in the hottest songs & videos, you get dissed, yet you still sing along and drop it like it’s hot in the club."
PRO-ATHLETE: “To me it isn’t that they’re brainwashed. I think they’re used to getting dissed and just don’t give a f*ck anymore. Like it isn’t worth the fight or the change.”
CHOCOLATE MODEL ROLLING A PHAT ONE: “I get casted sometimes just because I’m darker. I don’t take it as a compliment but I’ll take the check…thank you!”
CLUB PROMOTER: “You are not getting my point. How do you feel about these songs or videos? They ain’t talking about you or anyone who looks like you.”
PRO-ATHLETE #2: “My son’s mom is dark but I haven’t dated any dark or brown girls since I’ve been in the league. I’ll keep it real. As for videos and songs, I do hear them shout out other type chicks but if the song is hot and the beat is hot, no one cares.”
(Sounds of girls in the apartment grumbling under their breaths but no one is really speaking up.)
VERY LIGHT SKIN GIRL ON COUCH: “I’m the only light skin girl in my crew and my girls get offended when n*ggas holla at me saying, “yo light skin, yo red bone but don’t look at them. I get offended too. But I never notice the songs. The video are obvious though. It’s real obvious and it be the same girls.”
ME SPEAKING TO PRO ATHLETE #2: “Why don’t you date dark or brown girls? I know you sleep with some!”
PRO-ATHLETE #2, (while laughing): I don’t know! I travel all over and see so many beautiful women with different bodies, hair, and complexion. I don’t want the norm anymore. I want something different. I think some of ya’ll are cute but I’m just not attracted to girls who are brown or dark anymore. And songs don’t have nothing to do with it but I wouldn’t put it in a song. ”
Wow! I couldn’t say much at all except that I don’t think discriminating within our own race is cool. We should love all of our shades, no? And just as that conversation winded down, the new Young Money featuring Weezy song, “Every Girl” came on and you know WE ALL laughed when we sung along to the 1st verse! Little Wayne right off the bat says:
Uh, I like a long haired thick red-bone
open up her legs then filet mignon…
Damn Weezy…Chocolate girls need love too. But thanks to @iamdeucefly from Twitter who brought me back to one of THE greatest lines ever spit that trumps them all:
Some say the blacker the berry, the sweeter the juice
I say the darker the flesh then the deeper the roots
Thanks Tupac! I know you care…”if don't nobody else care…”
C.
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Given how disrespectful hip hop is towards women (at least that's how most of commercial hip hop is) why would darker women argue for equal time to be disrespected? If Weezy wants a light skinned woman so he can filet mignon that pussy, so be it. Do you, as a darker woman, want him to talk about you like that? I understand that sometimes a woman just wants sex, too but the disrespectful tone of rap songs should make a woman seek that from someone who at least respects her, or am I wrong?
ReplyDeleteI understand your larger point which is colorism within the black community. You can see in the evolution of rap music videos how it has become essentially gaudy jewelry and "exotic" looking women. Maybe a part of having these lighter women is probably "Pro-Athlete #2" stated: the rappers want to see like they are on something different than they were on when they were in the hood. For example, Jay Z came into the game with foxy brown. As he got more money and more stature he got a more "exotic looking" Beyonce. No coincidence really.
The issue has been around for quite some time and will likely not go away. However, as a darker woman, you are correct that you are part of the problem...at least slightly, no? You are in a position to possibly change things yet you just nod and agree to put lighter skinned women in videos. In a recession, though, I can see why you wouldn't speak up too much :)
Great read on a very good topic. Continue the thought provoking writing. Reasonable minds can disagree on anything but happy to see you engaging your readers on a tough topic.
I pretty much agree with everything Rico said above.
ReplyDeleteI think its a problem whenever a pro-athlete or regular individual that's a black male says: "I like light skin girls because..." There should never be a because; that's just being ignorant.
If you say, I like light-skin girls because I just like them, then that's fine by me and should be by everyone.
But, folks also have to understand, as these athletes go to school and these rappers travel the world, they are exposed to different types of women. They no longer see the dark-skinned sista's they are used to around the neighborhood or when they were in HS, etc. They get to college and travel and become exposed to different types of women; mixed, Latina's, Asians, Whites.
To me, that's just part of growing up. And who cares if a Black guy who once dated dark-skinned women starts dating lighter ones in college whether he's an athlete or nerd? Its just growing up and being exposed to different things. I believe the more things you are exposed to, the more you change.
The same women who complain are the ones who dance to the songs at clubs and watch the videos over and over on Youtube.
I grew up in the Dominican community and I'm Dominican, but dark-skin. I consider myself to be both Latino and African-American. The "majority, but not all" girls I've dated throughout life have been lighter skinned and not because of choice, but because the girls I happened to fall for have just been that.
I've gotten the whole spiel from some sisters that I'm a self hater, etc and how I am not dating a dark-skin woman. Then, I get the European ancestry side of my family saying: "Get you a girl with nice hair, etc" and ring off a bunch of attributes that describe a light Latina woman without saying "get you a light skinned woman." Shit's had me confused forever.
Just let people be...unless their idiots like Yung Berg.
Keep up the good work young lady. Glad to see a writer from the other side of Hispaniola.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDelete"Given how disrespectful hip hop is towards women (at least that's how most of commercial hip hop is) why would darker women argue for equal time to be disrespected?"
ReplyDeleteCO-SIGN!!! My thoughts exactly.
As a light skinned woman or "redbone", comments like that in songs are not flattering, nor do they make me feel good about myself. I, for one, am tired of Black women bringing this topic up all the time. Its getting old. Who cares if these men prefer light skinned women. Does that make a dark skinned woman any less beautiful than a light skinned woman? No. It just makes these men seem close minded. Just find someone who can appreciate beauty in all shades. I know plenty of men who prefer a brown skinned to chocolate girl over a light skinned girl, but these guys never get mentioned. Hell, I prefer dark skinned men to light skinned men, but does it really matter at the end of the day? That's my personal preference, and there's no real reason behind it. That's just what I like. Don't let a man, whether he be an athlete, rapper, whoever, validate how you see yourself or who are are as a person.
Chocolate girls, If you find yourself getting discriminated against in the work force because you're a dark skinned women, then you have something to worry about.
It's said that in this day in age men are still tied into these stupid stereotypes of what is beautiful, women are far too diverse to be stuck on "I can only date lightskin girls"
ReplyDeletefrom @thekingm1
I like them butter pecan to blackberry molasses, I don't discriminate. I regulate every shade of the ass... Big Pun!!! I don't have a prefernce when it comes to how or what my woman should look like. For the most part as long as she's black, that's all a brotha needs!! I love the tone of redbones and the skins of high yellow girls, but I fell in love with the dark chocolate sexy which just happened to model in the past!! No reason to look at the fine piece of meat in the lil wayne videos or the plies videos and make that what your woman standard should be. That should be solely based on YOUR prefrences and what your attracted to. Young "always writin checks his ass can't cash" Berg explained he didn't date "darkies/ dark butts" because they're darker than he is and the appear uglier when they come out of the pool after getting in. What's fickle to me may be of importance to somebody else. I love my Dark & Lovely woman... She looks like: a lil bit of hoodness, a dash of sexy, a pound of beauty, wrapped in "Oh My GOODNESS!!" baked to perfection!!!!!! The darker the flesh, the deeper the roots **cosigns**
ReplyDeleteFor some reason this topic has been on my mind as of late. I guess because I am trying new ventures and I know that my complexion is an issue for some. I am secure with my chocolate-ness and it's sad that this discussion is STILL happening in 2009. It's one thing to have a preference but to have one over the other and to peg one color as "better" than the other is a shame. I cry for my blk men and women that have these issues. It'd be fair to say "blame the white man" but at the same time, when will we take the blame for bringing this pain from the times of slavery.
ReplyDeleteOk, I'm off my box, I think that I might have to do a post now lol :)
wow- I don't even know where to begin. This is by far one of the best blogs that I have read and this topic has really been on my mind as well. I recently worked on a video for a wanna be "rapper" that pretty much said that he only wanted a Spanish chick because that is what is appealing. Unfortunately I said something to him about this and then I high tailed my ass off that set. I have a hard time working for soemthing I don't believe in and my morals have to stand higher than my hill of cash. Its just me. I also let the producer of this know that I would never work with them again. Id rather be broke than sell myself out. Its one thing to request that particular look because it goes with the story line but its another to only have that because you think that is the epitome of beauty! I am a mixed child of Haitian, Peruvian and Arawak Indian descent but I am not light. I have a pretty complexion and usually get the are you egyptian, or ethiopian or are you Indian question. I believe beauty is beauty. This also reminds me of a party that was being thrown in Detroit a few years ago... it was the brown paperbag party where anyone who was lighter than a brown paper bag could get in free and all others had to pay. WTF?!?!?!?!?
ReplyDeleteI am a strong believer that there is much more racism and prejudice amongst each other as black people rather than from other races to us. When is it going to end?!?!?
the music we hear often shapes reality. it is disheartening that the message of light skin, red bone, caramel complexion is resoundingly heard over & over again. it does permeate throughout the videos as well. i read this blog and although i am not surprised i still shake my head. i am surprised that pro athlete #2 answered, honestly. i question if he likes himself? it is one thing to be open about dating/marrying outside of your race. however exclusively denying one, possibly your own is another ball of wax. it implies that inferiority exists and we know that it not the case. this issue is multifarious and can’t even remotely be tackled with one answer. i guess the start is “talking” about it, which is what you are doing...
ReplyDelete~tan
this blog is true.. being that i used to model i've seen alot of discrimination first hand.. more so with white & spanish girls against black girls.. from the club, to video set... seen it all. now with the light vs dark...hmm ive seen it somewhat.. never experienced it.. but i can say that i agree with what u said to the athlete because he contradicted himself because his baby momma is black so we all know that most nfl/nba etc niggas will sleep with any avail pretty shone..dark or light skinned. all i can say is DUDES ARE STUPID AND ARE BRAINWASHED BY THE ENTERTAINMENT AND MUSIC IN TODAYS SOCIETY.. UGH!
ReplyDeleteHey I think I might be too young to have any real say in this but Im gonna jump in anyway.
ReplyDeleteIma just turned 16 and Im goin to be junior in highschool. And another thing Im a 'dark skinned girl' mostly because Im Nigerian but I live in America. Its gettin so annoying and hard for darker skinned young girls because in high school the media says lighter skinned girls are prettier or better no matter what. I dont think thats true or even fair to us! I have friends who are light skinned and we're all pretty but guys always jump to them 1st. I love Lil Wayne but when I hear Every Girl & I sing it too it makes me so angry & feel like I can never be redboned so what am I supposed to do? Then in music videos me & my friends sit around and we count how many dark skinned girls are the dime or even casted in the video. Sad to say not that many. We were so happy in the Blame It Jamie Fox video that the girl was dark skinned & in the new I Need a Girl Trey Songz video he picked the dark girl in the end. Things like this make me really sad & worried about media & what its doing to dark skinned girls self esteem. Why cant both be shown as beautiful in a video? In the end its funny that the rapper or athlete is dark skinned & hes dissing his own kind but thats just what I think. I think dark skinned guys & light skinned guys both look good so whys it so hard for them to see that for us?
woooo! got all that out.
~i would love a reply to this. :]
You make an interesting point about noticing that trey songz put chose the dark girl in the end. It goes along with the comment above that the guy made saying do we really want to be the highlight of these videos that are actually disrespecting women. I've noticed that many times when male singers write songs about the women they love they tend to put darker girls in the video. Examples Kendric Lamar's video Poetic Justice, Neyo had a video, can't think of the song but he used a dark girl and was talking in the song about how much he loved the woman, the Trey songz video you just mentioned and the list goes on. I've noticed that I see the lighter women cast more in the video that disrespects women and darker girls in the videos that talk about true LOVE for a woman. Not sure if the young guys that are putting lighter girls "above" darker girls have caught on to that. And of course, some of the videos that are showing love to women include lighter girls too but it's most often when you do see dark girls in videos it's NOT the ones disrespecting women.
DeleteYou are definitely not "too young" to have an opinion on this. Most of these videos and songs are for your demographic anyway. I am however saddened that you have to experience this at such a young age. For some strange reason I didn't experience any of this (to my face) growing up. I was a confident and very secure chocolate girl growing up who NEVER had problems with boys or boys liking me.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't until adulthood...after college that these issues became a problem. It became even more noticeable when I started working in TV & radio full time. Then my homeboys who were darker than me would make negative comments about brown or dark girls and when I moved to Miami, I started to notice how none of the black guys I was around would talk to a chocolate girl, date one or even say hello to one.
So NO...you aren't too young. I just wish you didn't have to experience it at all. I wish no one had to deal with it.
Thanks for your post.
Claudia
Im also 16 and iam dark-skinned as well and i do feel offended,and whenever i hear that song i turn it off.But like the other girl said we are happy to see dark-skinned woman becoming more involved in videos.This is crazy...First racism now colorism.And lil wayne is dark-skinned himself so wtf lol.im a black girl nd i think we all are beautiful :)
ReplyDeleteHe messed up though . He shouldn't start the song off with that because guys look up to him and what he likes they might starting liking. ''Uh, I like a long haired thick red-bone..open up her legs then filet mignon…'' Now they might not like the dark-skinned girls as much because their attention will be on the lighter girls.This is not good,colorism in the black community.It's also embrassing your own race only likes a different kind of skintone.
ReplyDeleteLets just be real, proathlete, couldn’t say to your face that dark skin women are not attractive. The norm for him is non-black, the norm for his colleagues is non-black women. Doing something different would be dating a dark skin woman. I wish people would realize when you negate dark/chocolate/brown skin..you negate dark skin in other races such as indians, asians, middle eastern, latinos. Dark skin is not only a plague to the African/African American race. Its okay to be black if your a man. They are still desirable. Its sad that its 2009 and we have blacks making movies, videos, clothing lines etc....and instead of breaking barriers, we continue to perpetuate bull shit. Black is Beautiful as long as it’s not too black. It’s sad because black people associate, dark skin women with: ugly, undesirable, & ghetto. Kids watch MTV and BET! They mimic what they see, so yes there are young dark skin girls being discriminated against, being looked over, and possibly not being dated amongst their black peers in school. Black women need not wait for a black man to find them desirable, become an equal opportunistic dater. Love those who love you back.
ReplyDeleteDEAR Claudia Jean,
ReplyDeleteI am a peanut butter complexion or medium toned. I am nineteen and think this topic is so much more that the outward appearance. It has been going on since slavery days. The lightwer you were better you were because you got to stay in the house. The dark slaves worked in the fields. Thus starting a movement of self-hate. I am currently doing a documentary entitled "REDBONE" for a arts scholarship and would like for you to do a video blog on this topic. It would be greatly appreciated. Contact Ashley Blake at nikehead4@yahoo.com. please and thank you!
-Ashley Blake
I have to agree w/ a lot of what Rico said. As a brown skinned woman I am not offended by Wayne's opening lines, "I like a long haired thick red bone. For a few reasons."
ReplyDelete1. It's Lil Wayne. He's not the most attractive man, he looks like a troll that been living under a bridge for several years...it's shallow point but hey sue me.
2. Sobriety is not his strong point. He stays sipping on some sizzorp...he thinks he's a Martian...I'll pass.
3. The man has impregnated several women, he has more than one baby momma...are you really offended that this type of guy will by pass u for your deep brown skin?
4. Any man that passes up a beautiful woman because she's too brown aka "too dark" likely has self esteem issues
DISCLAIMER* this is not say that all men who like lighter skinned women have low self esteem some men just have a preference and nothing's wrong with that.
4. It's a fact that Hollywood colour codes black actress. Darker skinned woman are always loud, uncouth ghetto. The lighter skinned women (mostly biracial women) are cast as the beautiful, more demure classy, love interest. It has trickled down into Hip Hop culture.
It done in a sublte way that normalizes the contrast and a lot of people buy into. Especially blacks. South Asians, Philipino and Latin American communities are affected by some degree of colourism. But it's nothing that media literacy, critical thinking won't undo.
The documentary Dream Worlds 3 by Sut Jhally...would have ANY woman light or dark rethinking wanting to make an appearance in any music video.
My sister don't believe the hype. Not all black men have the mentality of Lil Wayne, Young Berg and Co.(notice the Lil and Young @ the beginning of their names).
A real mature and self aware man will be confident to have any beautiful woman regardless of what the her skin tone is.
Any man with insecurities will destroy your self esteem because he will project them onto you point blank!
On the real ladies be happy that these type of men by pass you. So you can focus on getting good men period!
I'm 15 and a red-bone. I experienced it just like the light skinned girl said. Me and my sister or both red-bones. So when our cousin goes walking with us she's high yellow. They holla at her. Which is so sad. i think that it has happend to a lot of black women period. Some men have the prefrences and others it's like they think since they have more money now they need a lighter skinned girl. As for young berg that was just ignorant.
ReplyDeleteI love my sistas of every hue. And everytime I read or hear about this lightskin/darkskin saga, all I can think about is Willie Lynch. Hoax or not, the man must be smiling from hell...
ReplyDeleteThis really had me thinking. I do listen and dance to these songs and as a brown skin female I dont let it get to be. I'm mixed with jamaican and panamanian and I've been told plenty of times that my features are striking and beautiful, which i do greatly appreciate. But at the end of the day what other people say and what I hear in convos and music doesnt matter. The only thing that matters is what I see in the mirror. I know I'm beautiful, im confident and im a good women. So if I'm not someone's preference then they are the one missing out, not me.
ReplyDeleteHello Miss Claudia Jean,
ReplyDeleteYour post is very true and its sad. Right now I'm 18 and I used to constantly hate myself for being dark skin and wished I was at least my moms complexion which is caramel. Seeing mostly light skin girls in videos was not helping my situation. My best friend happens to be light skin and she's the one that guys wanna talk to. Automatically like a reflex guys go "ayo light skin". It really use to bother me and was very hard for me in hs cause all the guys were like that. But since that I've learned to love myself the way I am. I wont let no complexion state of mind ruin my life. I guess I'm going to forever have to deal with the " You're really pretty for a dark skin girl" compliment.
Well I was born dark skinned and I didnt like it for the socail reason that light skin was prettier. I bleach my cream with this cream here called mega blast www.orldofentertainment23.com/skinwhiteningproducts.htm and now I am happy and fair skinned. Nearyly white. Im sorry. Lighter skin just looks better on me and I get so much attention for it.
ReplyDeleteIm sorry. The site address for mega blast bleaching cream is www.worldofentertainment23.com/skinwhiteningproducts.htm
ReplyDeleteI must say the comment above about bleaching your skin and even using bleaching cream is so ignorent.God dosent make mistakes.He made you your complexion for a reason..Growing up in New york I always wanted to be light skin because my peers always made fun of me calling me blacky. When I moved to Maryland I gained some self confidence.Men down there loved my complextion. I even got the nickname chocolate.So over time my confidence grew and my completion is my favorite thing about my body.Plus I realized real men dont care if your yellow black or blue like a avatar.If your beautiful your going to get the attention.
ReplyDeleteI am a caramel skin color chick it really doesnt matter what type of skin color you are just love yourself.
ReplyDeleteWhy would you bleach you skin and try to look white ? You look like an idiot . You Need Some Help . God made you how he wanted you to look like. Forget what haters say . Don't be a self-hating negro.
ReplyDeleteHello Miss Jean:
ReplyDeleteHopefully you'll get this before the end of november :). I am currently working on a senior project/ documentary called SHADES: Is all Black Beautiful and it addresses the issue of Colorisim as a whole from begining [slavery] to now(I can send detailed info to an e-mail). I would most appreciate it if you could contribute a video of you talking about this subject (as it relates to the music industry) as you have above or perhaps in more detail, nothing long or elaborate, just your personal experience and opinion. I would greatly appreciate it and wouldn't mind sending you a copy if you participate. Thank you so much adn I hope to hear from you soon.
I'm darkskin and just want to say that if it was not for black women/men there would not be any light skin, caramel skin, or red bone people. If you want to know why then just Reply. I'm a darkskin Haitian and i'm proud =) most light skin, caramel skin,red bone girls etc are jealous and don't like me because I have long hair, but I DONT CARE ;D
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